Episode 325: Karthikeyan on Being a MacAdmin in India

The job of a MacAdmin is a global affair. We’ve done episodes with guests in a number of countries, but wanted to focus on what it’s like in a nation with over 1.4 billion people that’s projected to be the most populous country in the near future.



  • Karthikeyan Marappan, Socure – LinkedIn
Click here to read the transcript

Tom Bridge (00:01:18):
Hello and welcome to the Macin Podcast. I’m your host, Tom Bridge. And Marcus, how are you this evening?

Marcus Ransom (00:01:23):
I’m, I’m very good here in here in Australia, we’re just about to kick off the, uh, FIFA Women’s World Cup. And, uh, I went to the warmup match with, uh, the Matildas playing France, uh, on Friday night, which we, we won one nil, the largest crowd for a, um, a Matildas match, um, in Australia, 50,000 people. And it was awesome. Wow. I’m very, very excited. Um,

Tom Bridge (00:01:49):
When do games kick off?

Marcus Ransom (00:01:51):
Uh, they kick for the workup. They kick off on Thursday, um, Thursday our time. So, um, may potentially get to see, um, the U Ss a in, uh, the, the only actual World Cup match I managed to get tickets to was in the, uh, round of 16. Um, and that could potentially be Netherlands, um, U s a, there’s a bunch of people. So, you know, that might be a good match to watch.

Tom Bridge (00:02:20):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I’m really excited for the Women’s World Cup. I love, um, you know, I, I love the World Cup, generally speaking. It’s so nice to get to, you know, do some of that. And so, um, you know, it’s exciting when it comes around. It was exciting last year for the men, and I’ll be really excited to see how the women do, especially ’cause the US women are actually pretty good, uh, whereas the men’s team, well, they try real hard.

Marcus Ransom (00:02:40):
E even, even in general, it’s just seeing the, the professionalism of the players has, yeah, just reached a whole new level and seeing all of these teams, um, really start to peak. So, you know, uh, I know our team’s been building up to this for a long time and then hosting it here. Um, you know, don’t let me down. Um, I’ve got a lot of emotionally riding on this

Tom Bridge (00:03:03):
. Fantastic. And Charles, how are you?

Charles Edge (00:03:06):
I’m good. I, you know, I was just thinking it’s, it’s really nice that the professionalism of the players is so high to offset or counterbalance the professionalism of the organizers.

Marcus Ransom (00:03:18):
Oh, absolutely. Yes.

Tom Bridge (00:03:19):
. Yeah.

Charles Edge (00:03:22):
Which seems to be quite

Tom Bridge (00:03:23):
The, nobody likes people, which

Charles Edge (00:03:24):
Can be quite the opposite in certain other sports, but by and large, I think people who run large sports organizations just suck. I don’t know why that’s Yeah, why that happens. I think it’s just the money,

Marcus Ransom (00:03:36):
Money, money. That’s why it happens, Charles.

Charles Edge (00:03:38):
Money, money is the root of all evil. Speaking of which, do you want to introduce our sponsors? Oh, no, I’m kidding. Sorry. .

Tom Bridge (00:03:48):
You can’t see me PR listeners, but I’m making a pained face right now. Um, but, uh, ,

Charles Edge (00:03:57):
How about that? Local sports, for instance?

Tom Bridge (00:04:00):
Indeed. I understand they’re excellent looking at the nationals. Nope. Nope. They’re not excellent at all. That’s okay. It’s okay. They try real hard. Um, but, uh, we do have an incredible guest this week. Um, Ian, welcome to the macin podcast. We are so thrilled for, for you to join us. I, I think you’re actually our first guest from India on the podcast, so we’re so glad to have you this week.

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:04:24):
Hi everyone. And thank you. And, you know, nice to be here. Yeah, I’m really excited that I’ve been following Macin for a quite long time, but, you know, this is the first time I’m just interacting directly with you folks. I’m, you know, happy to be here.

Tom Bridge (00:04:36):
We’re so thrilled that, that, that you could join us. And one of the things that we like to do with any new guest is to ask them, Hey, how did you get into this? What was your origin story? How did you become a Mac admin?

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:04:48):
Yep. Uh, software, my education, I was just searching for a job, and I know it was like, actually ended up accidentally into this job because like in India down the time in 2006 when I started my career, Mac was not, I mean, apple was not prevalent. And you know, it used to be only used in the media companies, like, you know, the, uh, mostly the cinema industries. And then in like, you know, really high level executive even that was really less. But, uh, I just went to an interview and the first time in my life I saw a mag, you know, physically, because like, I never had a chance to, you know, uh, see a mag directly in, you know, person. It used to be always in a movie, some Hollywood movies, but that was the first time. So I saw that like, you know, it was a colored iMac G three.

So I felt really like, you know, excited to see always like, you know, we were seeing a PC from childhood, but like seeing a colored thing. So it felt really excited. And, uh, good thing is like, I got on a job offer from the same company, and they were the authorized, uh, service providers for Apple, and the company name is Apple Technologies. And, you know, they were the, like one of the best service providers for Apple. So I started my career as a service provider, you know, going to the field work. And so it used to be more of a macro pros in the cinema industries, um, like, you know, day and night because it’s very critical and the hard rise, everything. It’s like, you know, they used to have a raid configuration all in, in those times. So it used to be like, you know, running in that for around two years.

And then like, almost like around three years I worked in the North three service providers. So there I had only knowledge about like, you know, apple Hardware and the Macs. So I got certified that time. It used to be S C B T S C P T, so it was like, you know, all the, um, technician exams. So then on, uh, for three years, I got an opportunity in a company, uh, called GS Technologies. They were based out of Chennai, and they were doing a project for some microsystems at that time. So that is when I started my, you know, uh, slowly moved my career into the, uh, corporate, I mean, how can I say, the enterprise world on the Mac. You know, we started with the basic Mac support there, and, uh, some microsystem was acquired by Oracle, so we had some, you know, uh, here slot there.

Then, uh, then that’s when, like, you know, I got into thousand nine, I got into a Capgemini where they were doing some projects for, you know, use based, I mean, it’s for mainly for WARN with us, that is where I was introduced into the, I know, uh, mt. M uh, especially the Casper shoot, I think it was around version four or five that time. So that is where I started slowly with, you know, learning about all this enterprise and, and, uh, subscribing into the, you know, MAC Enterprise emailing list. And it used to be j uh, jam emailing list those days. No, slack. I don’t even know, like, you know, it used to be a lot of mail per day. So I started slowly like enrolling into it, and that’s how, like, yeah, I slowly developed the M D M, I mean, like learned about packaging, learned what does mean by that?

You know, um, slowly scripting, I was not even know that, you know, the scripting was, was, I mean, like, I never had even had an experience before on, you know, to know that the script works. So slowly I started into it. So from then, from 2009 I into the, uh, you know, uh, device management solution for both Apple and iOS, I did not get big chance to work on, um, any other stuff. I mean, like, especially Windows. I was more into a Mac from that time, like now. And then I had some exposure to S C C M, but like completely, I, you know, I was aligned. My, uh, you know, me towards only on the Mac side. And so that’s how it, uh, I ended up being into a Mac, uh, admin. And, um, yeah, so I was in VM world. So when, so I worked for Adobe for around six, seven, six years.

And, um, in two, and in 2015 is when, like first time I travel to us for doing our CAS force certificate, it was C C T that time. And in 2015, and then again in 2016, I did my C C A. And I know those times there are no remote, uh, trainings in India. In India, getting certified is not possible. So you need to travel. So somehow, like, you know, I got opportunity through my organization to travel there. So I traveled and did some certifications and, uh, then, and also we, we sometimes Adobe moved to Workspace one. So I ended up going to VM World to Las Vegas. I don’t, I think it was in 2018. And, uh, so last year through the current company last year, I was in oc, uh, in, uh, San Diego. Uh, so I, I’m connected with this like, you know, slack for a long time. So I am aware of MAC Admins community. I think I met Emily when I was there. She gave me that, uh, Mac admins, you know, the badge. So that’s how it was.

Charles Edge (00:09:40):
Nice. You know, that career trajectory sounds similar to so many that I’ve heard, um, with the exception of, oh, there wasn’t training locally, so we had to travel that, you know, I, I do see that in certain localities, but, um, I think India was a late one because I, I know a few of the MDMs didn’t have huge Apple adoptions specifically on the Apple side. Um, and there, but it does seem to be hugely on the uptick. And I guess in general, you know, the thesis behind the episode is that the job of a Mac admin as a global affair. And we’ve done episodes with guests in a number of countries, but we really wanted to focus on what it’s like in a nation with over 1.4 billion people that’s projected to be the most populous country in the world in the near future. I think maybe 12 million behind China and closing the gap, you know, every day. But, um, so with that many people and, and as technical as a lot of the people that I’ve worked with in India are, um, there’s a good chance that there’s a remote office that a lot of our admins are supporting there, uh, or, or remote developers or what have you. So I guess if we want to kick off this p part of the episode, what tips could you give people who have remote offices they’re supporting in India?

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:11:16):
Um, so the good thing happening now with, uh, you know, uh, after this pandemic, it’s all about remote, right? So now all the Chinese, everything is remote. And so what we observed is like, uh, when I was in a, you know, started with the ca, uh, jam and everything, we were like very few. So we used to like, you know, count the number of people here. But after pandemic, I know, uh, we have increased, at least I know around some two 50 to two 60 people who are almost like, you know, Mac admins here, and they work on some part of, you know, device management solution. So that all happened only because of this pandemic and then the remote, uh, because JAM started giving an online training, and many of them had a global pass. But problem is the travel, you know, budget approval that, you know, you, you have a pass, but you cannot travel to do a, you know, certification, right?

But after the pandemic, when they had an organization pass, they were able to do a training and almost everything became a remote. Any training you want to do it, you can do a remote. And that is how, that’s how it changed. So I feel like the training is an important part of it. Um, so it’s like from 20, uh, so we have a small group of, uh, WhatsApp and Telegram channel running in India for Mac admins, which I created around some 6, 7, 6, 7 years back. So I saw it growing from 20 to two 50 in last three, uh, last three to four years, you know, so now I’m hearing like a lot of the works are being offloaded to, you know, like, as I said, remote offices, engineers being in India. So, and everybody started using mac, which is, which was not the case before. So if you see six years back in India Enterprise, if you see, think about an enterprise company having an employee of 20,000, they might have one Mac or two Mac that will be dedicated for some, you know, uh, particular reason could be like, you know, they want to do some task, which really requests a Mac, but it’s not the case now.

Even almost like 70% of the companies started giving and, uh, op, you know, options to, um, choose their device, whether you need a Mac or, you know, windows. And, uh, so, so the Mac is growing and, uh, as you said, the remote. So I work on the same kind of setup. We are engineers here, and, uh, they all use Mac. We are hundred percent Mac shop. So, um, the training is something key, which I’ll always tell. And the exposure to the Mac admin channel, I’m sure like a lot of people know Mac Admins group community, which we, we, we are all doing it. We tell them that, okay, it’s available now and then, but still, like, you know, I feel like many of them are not in the, uh, Mac admin Slack or, or might be like they, they’re not aware that there is a Mac admin community like this running to do lot of stuff. Especially like I saw about a sponsorship foreign conference, right? There was a, um, MAC admin, so they’re not aware of it. So, which is something like, you know, we can improving. We help them to learn a lot.

Charles Edge (00:14:03):
So that, that’s interesting. Just as an aside, um, I do find that we’ve had guests in three or four countries that veer far more towards WhatsApp than Slack. I, I don’t know, is that just a more popular system in that specific

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:14:24):
Yes, because it’s like they use that as a personal, you know, messenger. So Slack, it’s become like an, you know, uh, enterprise and this is a personal, and everybody use it. They have a family group, they have all type of groups there. So, um, so I mean, they’re comfortable using it because Slack is something they have to download separately. It is, it’s not that impossible, but they’re comfortable using the personal, uh, you know, uh, messenger than the enterprise one. So actually now we are into Telegram because, uh, WhatsApp had some limitations. So we moved into Telegram where we have, we can have topics, everything. Uh, so when, um, but yeah, this both are like kind of a personal messenger, so they prefer using it, but like, we recommend using them really, you know, Mac admin, slack, because we have a lot of opport, we have a lot of, you know, opportunities there.

Especially on the part, like here it is only two 50 people, and that, in that most of them are new to the field. I’m sure that Mac admins, you know, our, uh, channel has like very big experts on that. Almost everything is answered over there. But that’s the reason, like, you know, in India, they choose Telegram first. They come there and, you know, we try to, we, I mean we, we, it’s like kind of a technical forum there, you know, they ask question and we, like, generally we share our ideas, but when we’re not able to share, we tell them to, you know, reach out to, I mean, go to the Mac Slack channel.

Charles Edge (00:15:42):
That makes sense.

Marcus Ransom (00:15:43):
Yeah, I know. It’s something I’ve seen in, um, Southeast Asia and other areas of Asia as well in that, um, there just seems to be, you know, for very similar reasons that you’ve said there. Um, I dunno if it’s a, a reluctance to use Slack or a preference to use other, other tools for communicating and, and collaborating. And I guess as long as the collaboration is happening, it’s great that people are, are at least talking to each other.

Charles Edge (00:16:10):
I wasn’t sure if it had to do with the end-to-end encryption type stuff that, you know, ’cause there’s that, that component as well. But I guess if you’re already using it to talk to your friends, why have another app? So I, I dig it mm-hmm. , you know, makes sense.

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:16:26):
It is, it’s about an, you know, idea that, um, they feel Slack is an enterprise thing, and you know, so that is, that makes a big thing, right? So they feel that it’s an enterprise. And for the Slack, they only think about, okay, it’s a corporate level. They don’t think it’s like, you know, I mean, it’s kind of, uh, you know, it’s more of information required to them. So we, I mean, yeah, I’m, I’ll surely like, make sure that, you know, I, I keep telling them, whoever reaches out to me, I tell them, I, I tell them that, go and join. We are a India Mac admins channel, even in, uh, you know, Mac admins Slack, uh, our Slack group, but like still, there are very less people over there compared to the Telegram groups. We are here.

Tom Bridge (00:17:03):
So one of the, you know, the best ways for, for folks to find common ground and for to, to understand each other’s lives, I think, and to understand the different challenges that they may face is to, you know, talk a little bit about our lives and our jobs. Uh, do you mind taking us through a quick overview of what a day your job is like?

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:17:22):
So I joined here as an, you know, uh, jam admin. So that was my primary role when I was recruited. Um, so we had, I mean, we were running an on-prem. So after I joined, we moved into the Jam Cloud. Um, and now I even do some work on Okta. So Okta and also Google Workspace. We use Google Workspace. Mm-hmm. Work on it. Um, so on the, on the onboarding part, we use OK Pro. So Pro, uh, we were using DP Notify, but like I, we had, we needed some, you know, functionality, which, uh, which is the reason we moved into OK Pro. So we use OK Pro for our onboarding. And, uh, so, uh, so we are like, you know, a security oriented company, so we do not allow, it just always one V P N. So we do not allow anyone to download, you know, our install applications directly from the internet.

So we, uh, it’s like every app has to be published through self-service. So we have around some 300 self-service items, because everything has to go through self-service with the proper, you know, approvals. Um, if any app has to be onboarded, it has like, you know, proper role. So that is like, uh, you know, with app, we are using the, you know, um, so now we are planning to use App installer, but before we are using Auto Package for, you know, managing the updates, because when it is, they cannot even download an update on their computer through V P N. It’s like every version comes, or maybe every major version comes, it’s our duty to package it and publish them. Or might we see how can we now update all the apps in the, so previously we’re using Auto Package and now like planning to move into app installer on the Jam Bot.

Um, so that is some, like major work goes there. And other than that, like, you know, we have, uh, iPhones, so, which is also in corporate owned iPhones, properly integrated with Apple Business Manager again, and we have all the restrictions in place to, you know, have a D L P between the managed app and then unmanaged app. Um, so this is kind of more often a device management thing. And even on the, um, laptops, I mean, MacBooks, we have restrictions on a lot of stuffs. Like we use Endpoint Protector clients, and we use, we use Tex exterior. So we block their SB restrictions through Endpoint Protector client, and now I’m like with, so I had some bandwidth, so started working on Okta, so I’m really getting good exposure to Okta now. So hopefully like, you know, I’ll be able to, you know, get into that as well, and Google Workspace as well.

Marcus Ransom (00:19:50):
So, you know, it’s, it sounds very much like you’re using, um, you know, all, all of the same tools that, um, MAC admins are using around the world. Um, do you find localization for those tools, um, is available, um, for you to be able to do what you need to do for your region? Or are there any sort of specific challenges you come across with those tools because of where you are based? So

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:20:17):
In India it’s like default, um, you know, official language, especially on the IT part is English. So I, I, I mean, like, you know, I don’t think any of even the device movement tool has any localization on, especially on the language part, but we are good with it because I mean, like, that is how it was from, you know, uh, past. And I think that will continue. Even Apple introduced, uh, Hindi language few years back, it was not like, you know, from the day, I mean, like, not even from very long time. So it’s not any issue here because there is no localization. And the bias is only thing is like, because we are from, uh, we are from kind of a, you know, work from India, and most of our accounts and account managers are holders on the, um, uh, you know, product side will be from us, for example, like, I work here, I’m the primary, right?

But like my account with Jam for any tool is signed from us. So the, the support wise, we’ll have some issues. So like, you know, we’ll end up buying and support extra additional support us to support, to get support in India, for example, like when we used to do VMware, we bought and, you know, 24 7 because admin are in India and we need, and they had a product support was like eight to five pst. But if you need a extra support us, we need to buy. So most of, I can say like most of the, um, agreements and the contractors assigned in the, uh, you know, either us or the, uh, the headquarters of the company, right? Headquarters of the company, and most of the Mac admins here, I can say very less, um, companies have, I mean, the startups in India now are adopting Mac a lot, but not the corporate. So corporates still like, you know, they sign everything there and only, only they get the back office here.

Charles Edge (00:22:04):
That makes sense. I, I, that’s really interesting that it’s not a language barrier to the point about localization. It’s more a time zone barrier because, you know, having to buy accelerated or 24 7 support contracts, um, I, so localization for admins is one thing, and I’m guessing that this might be a similar answer, but it’s worth mentioning, um, how important is localization for those who use the computers that leverage the tools that you’re using? So maybe self-service or the prompts that they get in their antivirus software or what have you

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:22:42):
Mm-hmm. . So it’s all English here. So we can see, like, you know, uh, there are very few people who use, even on the mobiles, they use the local language. So it’s mostly like English only, like, uh, very people like in India, it’s a multi-language, uh, culture, right? We have our own some, I mean like number of languages. Each state has its own language. And, um, if suppose when we are working in an organization where I, I’m in, I know Bangalore, which is, which has a different language, and when you are in Mumbai’s a different language, right? So that, that could be one reason that we adopted everything as English, especially on the information technology side. So that is not a problem anywhere. Um, I don’t think that will be even a problem in the future. It’s good to adopt with it, but like still it’ll not be a problem even in the future. So unless it’s English, it should be fine.

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Tom Bridge (00:24:53):
You know, apple provides a lot of different services like Apple Business manager, apple school manager, automated device enrollment that bases off of all of that. So did the setup for those seem difficult to what you hear people talking about in other countries in India as opposed to other places?

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:25:09):
So the answer is not now. It was before, but not now. Now Apple concentrates on India a lot. For example, like, you know, we are into the second list of country for anything they introduce, for example, like iPhone. You get it first week in US and the second week will be to India. So that’s what is happening in the last, uh, you know, two things. So not only that, um, any, everything like, you know, so Apple did not have an, uh, online store or a direct selling here. They started the online store in 2020 in the pandemic. They started the Apple online store where we can same like, you know, the US official store. And they even started a retail store recently. We never had a retail directly by Apple. It was only through the, you know, the premium resellers. And now Apple has, uh, the store directly.

And when they started even the device enrollment program down the line, you know, I think it’s around 2014, so it took some time. Uh, it took actually some time to, uh, you know, come to India because it is directly tied within, uh, a reseller and the reseller has brought up with it. So we had some delay there on, on that. And Apple Pay is not supported in India yet. But other than that, all the services are in time to India, at least, like in last one, one or two years, uh, with being like, you know, uh, apple started even manufacturing a lot of devices in India. So they’re from, I mean like, so I feel like we are good compared to how we were before, and I think might be very soon. We’ll also be in the first batch of countries for any new products or anything getting introduced from Apple.

Marcus Ransom (00:26:45):
What, what do you think was responsible for that change in Apple’s attitude and, and making India a priority rather than it taking years and, and there’d be delays before? Um, is it related to the, you know, the manufacturing moving to, to India or do you think it’s because of the, you know, the hu it being such a huge tech hub, um, have you, have you got any unofficial opinions as to what might’ve caused those changes in, in Apple’s approach?

Charles Edge (00:27:15):

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:27:16):
It’s because of, you know, the market share. So they won’t like around 5% market share in India with this many people. I mean, this high population, 5% is a big, you know, uh, number for them, right? So, so like when Apple was with, I mean, when Apple was only, you know, iPod and, um, laptops, they were not that prevalent in India. But after iPhone, there are people even in India that are like, you know, like the way we see in us, you know, people be in a queue to buy iPhones. So that is one reason that, you know, apple started. I, I, I mean, it’s like a personal opinion. Apple started concentrating more on India. And now even in India, all these startups or any new technology company, they started adopting Mac. So even their Ma Mac market share is increasing in India compared to like five, six years back. So that could be one reason that, you know, they really wanted to concentrate more on India, and, you know, and again, yeah, without all production, the manufacturing units, everything comes in. So at least they value that.

Marcus Ransom (00:28:18):
Yeah, look, being, being in a, in a country of two point of 25 million where Apple’s got a fairly, um, big, um, presence here, um, yeah, 5% of 1.4 billion, um, you know, I, I don’t think they’d pick up the phone to anyone in Australia if they had a choice of us or, or, or the population you’ve got over there. So it’s, it’s fascinating that it took, um, took so long. I guess it’s great to see that it’s no longer like that.

Charles Edge (00:28:47):
Yeah. And yet D E P and V P P were available in Australia before. I think that might have more to do with the similarity of the legal systems as opposed to the market share. Um, but that’s just conjecture on my part, , you know. Um, so, you know, we, we did just mention D E P and V P P, and it sounds like the issues there have been ameliorated from, from kind of past like challenges being able to get those systems up and running. Um, I guess the artist formerly known as D E P N P P P, because I don’t think we’re allowed to say those words anymore, . Um, I’m sure if, if anyone from Apple product marketing’s listening, they’re cringing right now. Ah, how could you do that? Actually, I don’t, I don’t think they typically mind. It’s normally the sess that get all complainy about it. But anyways, um,

Marcus Ransom (00:29:39):
They’re running out of three letter acronyms moving into four letter acronyms now as well. I’ve seen. So it’s like just A

Tom Bridge (00:29:45):
D U e A D D E. Yes. Yep. Exactly.

Marcus Ransom (00:29:48):
Just to spite us, I think

Tom Bridge (00:29:51):

Charles Edge (00:29:52):
But it sounds like all the, all the services that you need, um, are now available. Uh, and I guess as a, as an addition to that, um, you know, now we have maids as well, so what’s the uptick been like for those kind of managed IDs?

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:30:11):
So managed app id, that’s what we’re talking

Charles Edge (00:30:14):
About, right? Yep. Yeah. Mm-hmm. ,

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:30:16):
Yeah, start. So, so even in with my personal experience, um, I mean, like, I’m not using managed Apple IDs a lot, and, uh, the use case I felt it was really required is for the B Y D program, uh, you know, uh, for the, uh, might be for I os or my, that’s what, and that’s what I felt like, you know, we need, and we, um, I tried, I mean, like, you know, we even, um, put up a P O C for it. We did a b YOP program in our, uh, organization, previous organization. It’s more mature now, but still, I feel that made might be better once they have more federation. Like it might be with Okta instead of, they just have it, you know, Google and, um, Azure now, right? So I feel like, you know, once they open up with some few, or maybe they give us a general SAML or YC compliant kind of a thing, so you can integrate it. So it, so that will really help us, uh, help everyone that, you know, we can integrate any or similar ORC compliant so that, you know, you do not want to be in Microsoft or Azure or Google or should be any, any identity provider. So that should be one thing which, uh, will

Charles Edge (00:31:29):
Music to Tom’s ears

Tom Bridge (00:31:33):

Marcus Ransom (00:31:34):
Yeah, I think, I think there’s a lot of people seeing that as the, uh, the last hurdle for them for adopting is making it, um, a lot easier. Um, you know, I, I guess it’s also good that the, um, all the complexities have been ironed out by other people. Um, so, you know, the path to, um, federation and adoption, I is a little more known now than it was maybe two years ago. Um, which is, which is really good to see.

Tom Bridge (00:32:04):
I mean, all of us, we stand on the shoulders of giants, right? Like they’re the folks who want to try and be the early adopters, and, and they, uh, they, they may bear some of the pain that, that others may not. And, um, you know, I salute all of those folks who have brought those envi, uh, you know, details to their environments

Marcus Ransom (00:32:21):
Was, you know, ahead of it, such a challenging thing for Microsoft mm-hmm. and Azure id that they felt the need to change the name to come to terms with it, to enterra id, I

Tom Bridge (00:32:30):
Was gonna say, yeah, I was gonna say enterra ID is the new name for Azure ad, and I, I will admit some confusion. I mean, you kind of saw it coming a year ago when they introduced the Enter brand and we’re like, oh, okay, this is where everything is going. This is what they’re, how they’re gonna frame it all and they’re gonna do it all with the Enter label. And, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s funny because I, you know, if we think about ad those are, those are bad words in a lot of environments. Yes. Uh, and so now they have managed to get away from them, and it’s all, you know, there’s no ad in the Enterra id

Marcus Ransom (00:33:03):
And so many UX teams are now looking at their interfaces and documentation and going, great, we’re gonna have to go and change all of this. But

Tom Bridge (00:33:13):
It’s, it’s wild. Well, not that you can ruin an entire, like, fleet of tech writers day. I mean, I can’t think that, you know, the, the, the number of companies out there that have active directory integrations with Azure AD now have to rename everything to enter id or use a, a a, a combination, you know, you know, language there, or call it enter id formerly known as Azure ad, and it’s like where we had, you know, three letters before a a d in a lot of cases, now we’re gonna need a sentence to explain it all.

Marcus Ransom (00:33:45):
, or, or May, or maybe it was the entire tech writing team, um, at Microsoft and other organizations collaborated together and thought they could get themselves job security by just introducing a name change and guaranteeing at least, you know, however many additional sprints of work required before they could be, you know, put on the list.

Charles Edge (00:34:06):
So I would like to point out that there is a yet one more option, which is the tech writers of the world all banded together secretly and colluded for job security across the No. Yes. Um, but under the hood, under the hood, under the hood, they’re,

Tom Bridge (00:34:22):
They’re Foxy folks, I’m just

Charles Edge (00:34:24):
Saying. Yeah, it’s still LDAP somewhere buried really deep , like a pretty webinar interface with like fancy assertions and, you know, JWTs, all that jazz. It’s still LDAP way, way, way deeper. ,

Marcus Ransom (00:34:46):
I’m just thinking one of those word scares puzzles, where you, you work out how many letters you have to change to get LDAP into saml, into O I D C, and it’s,

Charles Edge (00:34:55):
Oh yeah, that’s a, that’s an interesting one. Yeah. Um, I think, uh, the conspiracy theory though, I’d like to have an entire episode with, um, with tech writers trying to debunk it, and we can just play the pillow guy and just not listen to any of the debunking, but it’s too soon. Sorry.

Tom Bridge (00:35:15):

Speaker 1 (00:35:17):
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Charles Edge (00:36:44):
Um, so you mentioned a 5% market share , um, but it sounds like the iPhone was kind of the leader that pulled the Mac, like a, like a little tugboat pulling a big, uh, steamship, um, the Mac into the, into the environments. There is, is that, did I, did I read that right?

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:37:05):
Oh, no, no. Uh, like, it’s not that the answer was like, you know, how did Apple started concentrating more on India? That was because of the iPhone, you know, uh, market. But Mac is all the same because Mac not only in India, I think it’s globally, you know, it just transformed a lot in the enterprise in the last five years. I mean, five, six years, right? So it’s the same year even, just only because like the enterprises are moving in, when the US globally moves, then they have to move even India because most of the it, I mean, it’s, uh, headquarters are in US or might be in Europe. So when they move into happening, so, and also like, you know, a lot of changes happened, uh, in even enterprises. I mean, uh, companies where they started, you know, mimicking the policies of US to India.

So when the US is getting this, we’ll make India also get it. So, right. I mean, not only on the, the phone, I mean, they tried doing it on all the policies as well as some monetary benefits, everything, if there is a wellness there, yeah, we’ll bring something like that here. So they started doing like, we are buying a Mac in us, why can’t we do that in India? So that is how it just, it has gone with the global phase and the thing, same like, you know, whenever a new startup, it just become like a culture that everybody gets into Mac. So, so it, it, it’s same even here started. So there are a lot there. So in 2000, uh, two to three years back, I think in last three, four years back, there were multiple startups in India who, uh, who were like unicorns as well.

So they all adopted mac, which, which is, you know, separate. Then, you know, have we started concentrating more on India? It’s more, I, I feel it’s more of market share of iPhone. So they really need to, you know, think about how can they still improve because they are 5%, which is a huge number, approximately 5%. I think it’s around 4.25 or 4.5, but, um, but still they are number, not number one. I think they are seven or seven, uh, in, I know, I think they’re in the seventh place. I mean, I don’t know the right view, but Yeah. Yeah, right count. But they’re seventh, right? Samsung is third, I think. So Readme and, uh, these guys are into that. So they’re, to concentrate more, at least, you know, they grow up higher in that.

Charles Edge (00:39:15):
Yeah. And a company like Huawei is actually above them in that case, I guess. Yes, I think, yes. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I, I mean, just to throw this out there in the startup world, I think that the Mac is the clear winner, simply because I can write code for Mac, Android, and Windows on Mac . So, you know, um, visual Studio Code is kind of the, the, um, the, the, oh, Rosetta Stone, that’s what I’m looking for of, of coding software, with the exception of writing code for the Mac, where you can kinda use Visual Studio Code if you’re writing Swift, but it kinda sucks, and you can’t compile and run the app from Visual Studio. So, um, uh, so do you feel like then, you know, startups are nice ’cause you know, they grow, but also these big companies offering choice, let’s call it, um, which I feel like marketing teams outside of emerging markets should probably learn to, um, stop using B Y O D marketing speak, because I think it’s kind of run its course, but that’s just me. Um, do you, do you think that the deployments are getting bigger in general though? Like, ’cause there’s increasing market share is we want more deployments, more logos of customers, but also we want bigger deployments in the logos that we’ve already won.

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:40:52):
Um, so I mean, uh, as you said, like share is increasing. If you ask me, uh, one company having a big number of, you know, uh, deployments, we can only name very few in India, um, for, especially for Apple. So, um, I mean, like, I mean, I, I, sorry, yeah, I do not want to take name here, names here, but like, yeah, very few, you know, who ask like, might we consider like some 10,000 max and 20,000 max? I, I don’t think we have any, uh, you know, like big deployments like that. And in India, the thing is, we don’t have much of, uh, you know, education institutions using like, uh, apple products, which is very much different from the, you know, other countries, especially with us from like, you know, where whatever we see in our Mac admins group or might be anywhere, we, we, we have a lot of people from the education side, from the schools, district schools, but in India still, the schools are in the board with the, you know, paper and pen.

They are not into digitalized where teachers are, I mean, might be one or two, but not into the regular education institutions where people start using iPads so that, you know, we’ll have a big deployments over there, or we don’t, they don’t, the students don’t get iPads or MacBooks when they join, or they are not managed to do it. So there’s still in the book, we are still in the books and, you know, pepper pin. So that was one. If that changes, then I’m sure that, uh, with this population, with this many schools for sure, apple will have a big deployment of, uh, you know, in the schools. But, um, not in the corporate. Corporate might take some time. So I mean, like that’s what’s the big deployment in e d is,

Charles Edge (00:42:33):
And you mentioned the higher ed, um, not having a ton of, of M Mac specifically, but how about K 12 or, uh,

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:42:44):
The same here? So same, same. So overall education wise, uh, there are some colleges after, like schools, they use, um, laptops, but not everybody’s like, not, not that adopting like us, right? It’s very less Mac, because Mac is still expensive in India. So, um, so like, you know, corporates is different, but education, it is about the, you know, uh, money involved a lot when a student want to buy, and Mac is still expensive in India, apple tries to do all their programs, like, you know, student discount programs, everything. But still it is expensive India. So people prefer using, uh, you know, buying on a Windows laptop. There’s ACRA happening now, really, they’re looking and buying Mac, but it’s not like comparatively like, you know, uh, other countries when, when we see them in our, for a lot of, uh, admins who work in schools, work in colleges, in, you know, US and Europe, but not even in Australia, but not in India. So I don’t see anybody in India, MAC admins, they’re working for any school or colleges, that’s for sure.

Marcus Ransom (00:43:48):
With, with the increase in organizations having to support Max, how do they then go finding people like yourself to actually do, um, do the supporting and have that experience and knowledge? Is it, um, is it good opportunity for people who want to get into and specialize in that area of the market or, uh, uh, uh, lots of people realizing that there’s an opportunity and wanting to get training now that it’s offered remotely? Like how are you finding the job market for Mac admins?

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:44:19):
It’s actually an interesting question. It’s a really good here in India for now. So the opportunities are like, I see every one or every day, one or the other, you know, LinkedIn job posting for Mac Edmonton, India. Okay. Uh, and um, which is really interesting because like when, when, uh, when like, you know, I started or when, like 10, 10 years back or seven years back, it used to be every three months, six months, one opening, and there would be only four or five peoples even to attend that, you know, five people there. So it was less opportunity was less on the, on the technique. I mean, admins were also late, but it is now changing. So we are around, like, I’m sure we have around 300 people in India, not more than that, but just 300 people. And, um, they keep changing. So we, there is market is really good that, you know, every, like, every day there’s a job posting and you know, people are competent.

And a good thing about it is like, um, so when they work for an, uh, in know service-based organizations, they come, they, they are into S cm or they are into Intune or, uh, windows tools, and they learn, um, you know, JAM for general Mac admin tools like, you know, workspace one or whatever it is. And they try to be, you know, uh, overall an enterprise deployment thing for both Windows and, uh, mac, which is, I see like, you know, almost out of this 40% people are like that, where they are to both Windows and Mac, and they work in a service, service based company where they have projects. So one guy can work on both the technologies, both the operating systems. So, so that is one thing which is driving really, because a lot of, um, so there are companies where, you know, um, they take a project and they have Windows on mat, they’re happy that, you know, they can have, I want resource to work on board.

Tom Bridge (00:46:07):
Are there, you know, one of the things I think about in terms of managing devices now is managing the compliance states. Uh, and you know, here in the states we’ve got, I don’t know, 1,000,001 different compliance statements, whether they’re ni or organized by the government, organized by private enterprise to protect credit card data or, you know, uh, provided by, you know, different parts of the government, even like FedRAMP or State Ramp or, you know, the, the, uh, security industry, STIG standards. Um, you know, of course in, you know, in the, in the UK we’ve got, you know, cyber essentials. There’s c is there’s, you know, uh, in, in where Marcus is, there’s the essential eight. Are there certain, you know, standards of security that you guys, uh, uh, you know, focus on as your gold standard?

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:46:51):
So I mean, like, it’s all, you know, uh, it’s all Western, I mean, U US policies like NIST and these things, and government has set up policies, but they don’t, they don’t directly get inside the, you know, uh, enterprise organizations. They generally talk about the overall privacy and these stuffs, but we follow a lot of, we follow list, you know, CIS compliance, P C I E and everything like globally, because like most of them are from the global standards. So we, we try to follow the global standards. So government doesn’t get into the any enterprise . Yeah.

Marcus Ransom (00:47:24):
So the answer is like most at Mac admins, you have to adhere to all of them, not just , one of them. .

Tom Bridge (00:47:34):
Isn’t that the truth? Oh, oh. So community has been, you know, one, one of the best parts about being in the Apple ecosystem, at least for me, I’m, I’m leaving for Penn State, uh, tomorrow morning, by the time you hear this Penn State will have happened. Uh, but, you know, I’m really most really excited to go see a lot of the people that I know in the industry that, you know, that we get together in person. Uh, so do you feel like there are a, a lot of admins who meet regularly there physically, or is it mostly just the Telegram and WhatsApp channels as well as the maced and Slack?

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:48:06):
Mm, so v recently there is, uh, you know, uh, I think JAM for resellers. I, I forget what’s the name they call. Um, so they started doing something called Master of Mac, and they’re arranging, uh, you know, they’re arranging in, in, uh, association with jam, actually Jam have some employees here now, like recently, last few years with association, they started with the Masters of Mac, and I think they happened in a different city. So that’s one, you know, official event, which just started with one or two events in last few months. But, uh, from our side, like, yeah, so I know a lot of people who, who are in Bangalore, we don’t do it like a meetup, but yeah, we are very close that, you know, once we started in tech technically, and then we became, you know, personally, so we, you know, keep, uh, meeting or something like that.

But we never had any, any kind of official meetup kind of a thing in India, but which, which we wanted to do. But we never, uh, been like, we still, it’s like it’s a, the pandemic after pandemic, everybody’s in remote and in India remote itself is like, you know, everybody’s in like different part of the country. So gathering them, it’s not, uh, you know, it was not that easy, but we are still planning for it, but, um, not, it happened. So might be like even I spoke with a guy who did the Masters of Mac, so we’re thinking like, might be like, you know, if that is good or we’ll try to, you know, go there and, you know, have an, uh, meet up all there, something like that. But nothing officially happened.

Marcus Ransom (00:49:36):
So what can the wider Mac admin community do to make itself more accessible to people from different re regions? Uh, you know, is there, is there anything you see about the way the MAC admin or other tech communities operate that make it, um, challenging for, um, people in, in different regions of world, I guess time zones aside, um, to, to make things more accessible?

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:50:02):
So it’s changing now. So as I said, a time zone is something, uh, like, you know, uh, important. Um, we need to consider because when someone has a, uh, you know, someone has some issue they wanted that you wanted and reply might be Mac admin channel in the morning time of India will not be the right choice for them, right? They need to reach out to a local people. And, um, so local in the sense like when we are only just 202 50, it’s very easy to be noted that the, instead of bringing that into the wider group where we have like, you know, I think a few lags, so something. So that is one thing. And to improve what I, what I would suggest is like, I see it’s about like same, you know, uh, now we know Mac, so I, many of them are aware of it only, they didn’t adopt adopt the might be getting into the Slack, but most of them are aware there is a Mac admin event happening.

And like, even we posted, like whenever we see some videos of, uh, know, uh, I think the, uh, UKs MAC admin happened very recently. So whenever we see some article really interesting, we share it in a group. So they give, they go to the link and I’m sure that they’re aware that, okay, there’s something happening on it. Only thing is adoption is like lacking. Getting into it and then actively into the forum is something which is lacking here. That’s what I feel, especially on the global Mac admin side. It’s, it’s good. In the India’s telegram thing, at least per day, we see like, it’s not much, but at least 30, 40 messages, sometimes more than that if, if the discussion goes beyond it. But, um, when it comes to the global level, it’s like, yeah, I mean, they need to start adopting more and they need start getting into more, how can we improve it?

Just like, I mean, through people like who really know about it, they know the value. I know the value of Mac admins. I like, I have, I have been into it and I have, I learned everything from there. Um, know everything. So standard, so packaging, like, you know, I can name like almost 20 to 30 people in my mind who are like, you know, they use their tools on. So once they really get that, you know, um, I mean, once really they go into it and they start using it, I’m sure they’re not going to, you know, uh, they’ll really like, learn a lot and they’ll really feel happy about it. But the thing is, it’s not happening. We’ll see, like, uh, even I’m thinking like we keep doing it, but it’s up to them that, you know, they want to really enroll into it and they get into it and they really actively, actively participate into it. Makes

Charles Edge (00:52:37):
Sense. Thank you for all of that. You’ve, you’ve been, um, very informative, so thanks . Yeah.

Speaker 6 (00:52:50):
Here at the Mac Admins podcast, we wanna say a special thank you to all of our Patreon backers. The following people are to be recognized for their incredible generosity. Ste Bacca. Thank you. Adam Selby. Thank you. Nate Walk. Thank you. Michael Sy. Thank you Rick Goody. Thank you. Mike Boylan. You know it. Thank you. Uh, Melvin Vives. Thank you. Bill Stites. Thank you. Anush Ville. Thank you. Jeffrey Compton, M Marsh, Stu McDonald, Hamlin Cruzin, Adam Berg. Thank you. AJ Reka. Thank you. James Traci, Tim Perfi of two Canoes. Thank you. Nate.

Tom Bridge (00:53:24):
Sinal O’Neill, Seb Nash, the folks at Command Control Power, Stephen Weinstein, chat, Swarthout, Daniel McLaughlin, Justin Holt, bill Smith and Weldon. Do thank you all so much and remember that you can back us if you just head out out to patreon.com/mac eight podcast. Thanks everybody.

I really appreciate all the time today, Kartik again, ’cause this is a really important part of the world for, uh, you know, it industry. Um, you know, I was gonna say, you mentioned at the top well, but while we were getting acquainted that Bangalore is the Silicon Valley of India. Uh, and you know, I was gonna say, I’ve got great coworkers over there. They’re, uh, they’re mostly based in Bangalore. Um, and I am hopeful I get a chance to go over and meet a lot of them. Um, I really do want to go over and see Bangalore and, and New Delhi, and you know, a lot of India because it’s such a unique part of the world. Uh, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your perspective today. Now, I can’t let you go without the traditional bonus question. Um, and so, you know, Charles, you wrote this one. I’m gonna let you ask it.

Charles Edge (00:54:28):
Okay. Uh, so Masters of Mac is a funny term. Um, marketing team seem to come up with all kinds of wacky stuff, but what are you the master of that has absolutely nothing to do with a Mac.

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:54:48):
So Yeah. Might be like, we can edit this. So, um, so you’re talking about other than Mac, I mean generally on the personal side of it. Right. Okay. So

Tom Bridge (00:54:59):
I something about something from your personal life.

Karthikeyan Marappan (00:55:01):
Something. Yep. Um, so in India, uh, mark, I mean I cannot say a master, but in India, cricket is something I know, uh, very, uh, famous and it’s like that’s the first game in India, which is like, like almost everybody will have, you know, experience playing in our with when you and school even after that. So that is one thing. And so yeah, we have movie, I’m a movie addict, so I watch a lot of movies, all, all like might be Hollywood or might be regional movies. This is the two things I can say. And yeah, this are two things I can see.

Charles Edge (00:55:41):
Love it. How about you Tom?

Tom Bridge (00:55:43):
You know, I, I was gonna say the things that I love, right? I, you know, uh, doing outside of work, I’m a gardener. Um, I have a, uh, brilliant vegetable garden that is kicking butt right now. Um, I have three different species of tomatoes, but I will be able to pull off the vine in the next couple of weeks, uh, including some really nice early girls that are about the size of a, a baseball. Um, so b l t sandwiches are in my future and I am looking forward to it. Um, but, you know, other than that I love getting out on my bike. Um, yesterday I went and did a, uh, pub crawl with some friends on bike, uh, that ended up at the pool that we belong to. So we got in 12 miles, despite it being mid and super humid and really gross outside.

Um, you know, I was gonna say, it’s always good to get out into nature and to be out on two wheels. I love that process of, uh, you know, just being out there and just peddling. ’cause you’re, you can’t, you can’t be thinking about anything else at that point. You kind of let a little bit of your brain go off and do something else, but it’s nice to be out there and, and, and do those kind of things. So yeah, count me as a, as a road biker and a gardener. Uh, I was gonna say, I’ll put some, uh, some, some photos of the produce in, uh, in, in the, uh, show notes here as well as, um, you know, I was gonna say our front garden is all, uh, native species. Um, and so we, and now is echinacea season, and so I have beautiful purple cone flowers out front, and we are just about to hit the peak of the, uh, black-eyed Susans. Uh, so I have a beautiful, you know, panoply of flowers out in my front yard and it is just gorgeous. Marcus, how about you?

Marcus Ransom (00:57:18):
Uh, for me it’s probably my, my motor scooters. I, I, I, I’ve gotten out of touch, but I used to be able to, at distance, be able to know which sort of, which length and size bolt or nut would go on any part of any model, lambretta, and, you know, like any good pendant to be able to get into fist fights with someone as to what particular year they went from 12 millimeter wheel nuts to 13 millimeter wheel nuts and really vitally important life changing information like that. Um, you know, an obsessing, you know, reading, reading parts, diagrams, like it was the Apple Platform security guide and those, those sorts of things. So that, that’s really the, you know, that that’s my, my obsession and hyper focus that’s, that’s lasted even longer than my, you know, obsession with, with Max. Love it. What about you, Charles?

Tom Bridge (00:58:19):
How about you Charles?

Charles Edge (00:58:20):
Yeah. Oh my goodness, I’ve got nothing. Um, I,

Tom Bridge (00:58:24):
Oh, you are a, you, yeah. You are a master painter and tinkerer friend. Oh,

Charles Edge (00:58:28):
I have been painting a lot. Uh, so the three D printing the d and d characters or the terrain pieces or even stuff for the backyard, you know, uh, to, to plug things that hold the hose in place, like trying to design these things in AutoCAD or Tinkercad, um, and then paint them because, you know, you want them to match stuff or whatever. Um, I’ve been printing a lot of,

Marcus Ransom (00:58:52):
I meeting with our, our former guest, Selena, you were, um, suggesting, oh, printing up some ancient coins and all sorts things

Charles Edge (00:59:00):
That sort of Yeah, I designed a bunch of coins for, for that. Um, actually someone just asked me to design one more. Um, but yeah, I, I don’t feel like, uh, I mean there’s so many people that are so talented at that kind of stuff that I never felt like a master of any of it. I, I feel like a, a jack of all trades and if I were to be a master at anything, it would be being a jack of all trades , you know, which I, I guess I don’t know if that, if there’s something, um, about a not going deep enough in any specific one to ever get, you know, really good at it, but, uh, fear of commitment maybe, I don’t know. .

Tom Bridge (00:59:46):
Well, you know, it was funny, Ian, you mentioned cricket and of course, you know, here in the States we don’t have a lot of cricket except they just announced Major League cricket games are starting like in the next couple of weeks. Um, and I’m very excited. DC has a team. We have the Washington Freedom. Unfortunately they don’t play near dc. Um, and uh, they actually play near now down near my friend’s house in North Carolina, um, which is like two states away. So I, I think calling them the Washington Freedom is maybe a little bit of a, of, of a marketing ploy more than anything else. But, um, I understand that they’re gonna build a new cricket ground here in dc It’s not gonna be that big, but like, uh, 12,000 spectators. Um, and it’s gonna be out near George Mason University. So I I I’m gonna, as soon as they have that open, and it’s not like five hours round trip to, or five hours each way to go see a cricket match, I am gonna go, because I have always enjoyed when I’ve been in the UK watching the cricket. And so it is, it is a fascinating game to watch live. It is a lot of fun. Um, and very kinetic, very, a very frenetic game

Marcus Ransom (01:00:50):
Now. Now, Tom, it really doesn’t matter if it’s five hours each way to get there, because, you know, a proper game does indeed last five days. So

Tom Bridge (01:00:59):

Marcus Ransom (01:01:01):

Tom Bridge (01:01:01):
That is true. Isn’t true. The test matches do go on, it

Marcus Ransom (01:01:03):
Really doesn’t, you know, the commute. Yeah, the commute’s not much of a problem. So, you know, Kaan, which, which format of the game of cricket is your favorite? Are you a T 20 fan or a one day or, or the full test? Yeah,

Karthikeyan Marappan (01:01:15):
T 20. It’s like T 20. It’s really just matches. Yeah, we can watch, but it cannot be like, you know, continuous. But T 20 is interesting. You finish off in like, you know, three, four hours actually, that’s it. Um, so even like, um, so, uh, I’m saying like Charles, so I cannot say I’m master in everything, but like my father is a farmer, so like, you know, whenever I, so what, so in India it’s common to live in a different city from where you are native was? So my parents still live there and I live in . This pandemic made me to go, uh, made me to be in my for almost like three years, you know, up and down because like remote completely, which is where like, you know, I started spending a lot of time farming, you know, helping my father and uh, like I never been in my home previously.

So, you know, from my childhood I was outside in a school and then, uh, college and then joined a job in a different city. But this three years was like, you know, very good experience being with a family. And then also, you know, knowing how to, you know, how this all grows, like rice, we have. So our place is like really a rice growing and then we eat something, grow sugar can, and um, you know, like vegetables, like um, tomato and then fruits, like banana and these things. So that is something which I can say like it, which I’m like improving. Hopefully like when I go there, I’ll try to do some work on it.

Tom Bridge (01:02:44):
I love that so much. Awesome. Yes. Same. Um, Ian, thank you so much for joining us this week. Um, if folks are interested in finding you, are you on social media or LinkedIn or someplace like that? We can put some links in the show notes for folks.

Karthikeyan Marappan (01:02:58):
Um, yeah, I think, I’m sure I’m collected with all of you for long back. Um, so I’ll, I’ll share my LinkedIn indeed. Uh, yeah, I’ll share my LinkedIn, but that should be fine. And, um, perfect.

Tom Bridge (01:03:09):
Yeah. Cool. Well, thank you so much for joining us this week. Thanks also to our wonderful sponsors that is Kanji Collide and Simple, m d m, um, and folks, we’ll see you all real soon. Thank you so much. We’ll see you next time. You next time.

Karthikeyan Marappan (01:03:22):
Thank you. See you later.

Speaker 6 (01:03:39):
The Mage Mins podcast is a production of Mcad Min’s podcast, L l c. Our producer is Tom Bridge. Our sound editor and mixing engineer is James Smith. Our theme music was produced by Adam Coga the first time he opened. GarageBand sponsorship for the Mcad Mins podcast is provided by the MCAD mens.org slack, where you can join thousands of MCAD admins in a free Slack instance. Visit mcad mens.org and also by techno missionary Lll c Technically we can help. For more information about this podcast and other broadcasts like it, please visit podcast dot mage admins.org. Since we’ve converted this podcast to a P F S, the funny metadata joke is at the end.



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